[Red Pill 101] Ep. 2: Nice Guys & Incels

Big Ideas

  • Very few men actually hate women. They just want to end their virginity or get a girlfriend.
  • If men are not taught the rules of the game, they will never solve their reproductive problem.
  • How is a man supposed to know whether it’s appropriate to approach a woman when her face is glued to her phone?
  • Women don’t trust Nice Guys because they think they’re just putting on a front to get sex.
  • Admiration (of you) is the most important quality to look for in a woman.

Resources Mentioned


A man recently shot up a yoga studio, shooting six and killing two women. The media posted pictures of the guy next to a cutout of Ronald Reagan and showed pictures of him from the military.

You’ll hear two narratives about this event. One narrative that portrays the guy as a Trump supporter and example of “toxic masculinity.”

The other side of the story is whether or not the guy was an incel.

There was recently an event where a guy rented a truck and drove through the mall trying to run over women. He said he expressly targeted women because he was angry at women. Before that Elliot Rodgers was the “incel martyr.” This is when the term incel started to become well known. There’s been a string of “incel” guys who have committed mass violence against women.

There’s an emerging narrative that the manosphere is what’s causing these guys to do these things.

What is an incel?

Incel stands for “involuntary celibate.” Incels have resigned themselves to their fate. These guys come across the red pill. They’ll understand the red pill and then resign themselves to being forever alone. They have this idea that they “tried everything” and nothing worked. They believe that they will never have the social intelligence or looks required to have a relationship with a woman.

Rollo says most of these guys he’s come across are not violent. They’re just apathetic and hopeless and want to commiserate. The early incels gathered on a forum called PUAHate. It was dedicated to guys who had gone through a pick up artist’s program and then didn’t get laid. They’d ban together to to try to warn people about the “snake oil salesmen.” The forum linked to many of Rollo’s articles in a positive light. After the Elliot Rogers event the red pill started to become associated with the forum.

(Incels are not the same as MGTOWs. MGTOWs simply decide they’re not going to define themselves by the approval of women and decide to “go their own way.”)

What is triggering these guys to commit this violence? And why does the red pill take the heat for it?

When guys get zeroed out, they end up killing themselves or decide they’ve got nothing left to lose.

This kind of stuff happens in China too. The surplus of men means women are overvalued and men are undervalued. So what does a man do? He can shoot himself. He can shoot other people then shoot himself. He can lash out. He can try to make himself better. He can fight against it.

Men who lack the social intelligence decide that the only way they can stop the hopelessness they feel is to kill themselves.

Incels can be dangerous if they have nothing left to live for, nothing left to do.

The Misogyny Illusion

Men have a natural instinct to protect women. Women are the lifegivers. Eggs are valuable and sperm is cheap.

But this instinct to protect women is also triggered when a woman gets upset by an unflattering red pill truth. Men want to jump to her defense by calling “misogyny.”

Rollo says in his 16 years writing in the manosphere, he’s met very few men where he thought “that guy truly hates women.” Most guys want to learn how to get their girlfriend back, get a girlfriend, finally end their virginity, etc.

Autism & The Red Pill

Rollo’s had many men in their 30s reach out to him saying they’ve never kissed a girl. Rollo noticed that a lot of guys who fall somewhere on the autism spectrum have a hard time picking up on social cues that would indicate how someone feels in a situation. It’s less about not understanding women than it is about not having the ability to read people in general. These are men women genuinely call “creepy” because they just don’t understand the dance they have to go through to get from Point A to Point B.

Some of these guys encounter the red pill truths and they’re not ready for it. It feeds into their sense of hopelessness.

The Nice Guy’s Dilemma

Women know the rules of the sexual game intuitively. But men do not know the rules unless they learn it. They’ve been conditioned from an early age that if they’re “nice” to girls, something good is going to come back to them.

“What do girls want?” is the question that teenage boys ask. Many of those same boys still ask the same question decades later.

Reproduction is a problem that men need to solve. It’s an existential part of who we are.

Men are deductive problem solvers. They ask women what they want and then do those things.

The problem is women don’t know what they want. They might want different things at different times.

Men start with questions like “how do I get a girlfriend?” “how do I get laid?” But they soon learn that red pill is not just about getting laid. It’s about changing themselves for the better.

We’re raised to believe the woman is the prize. You have to change your mindset to believe that you’re the prize. And you have to improve yourself to make yourself a worthy prize for her to seek.

The Lost Boys

Men are taught to gender loathe. They are taught they are poisoned by their testosterone. They’re taught the only correct way to interact with others is in a feminine context.

These “lost boys” have grown up without any direction. This is why Jordan Peterson became so popular. When he tells them “go clean your room”, they’re amazed because they’ve never had direction like that before.

Young men are craving direction.

Approaching Women in the Digital Age

Pat says the social awkwardness factor is compounded today tenfold by the cell phones. Pat was at a fitness facility. He gets on an elevator and two young women get on. They look they’re in really good shape, but he had no idea if they were pretty or not. He never saw their faces because they were staring at their phones the whole time. No acknowledgement or thank you for holding the door. The guy in the elevator looks at Pat and says, “how do you even communicate with someone like that?” People don’t talk to each other anymore.

Rollo describes three levels of consciousness. There’s face-to-face or phone conversation with another person. There’s the internal dialogue you have with yourself. And, the new consciousness is the digital communication. The digital consciousness is the undiscovered territory for us.

The younger generation communicates almost exclusively through digital communication.

In the U.K. men run the risk of going to jail for a “hate crime” if men approach a woman on the street. Yet if she’s glued to her phone, how is the guy supposed to tell if it’s appropriate to approach her or not?

The rise in incels is partly due to the fact that men don’t know how to approach women. And it’s considered shameful to seek out advice about how to do it.

How are men supposed to know what to do if they don’t ask questions? Unless he had a father who taught him, he won’t know anything about getting a woman.

The Nice Guy Mindset

Men are conditioned to make womankind his mental point of origin. He does not start his process with thinking about what’s good for himself.

There’s a difference between arousal and attraction. Women won’t admit what arouses them because it would make them sound petty. So they give lists of qualities they think would be nice in a long-term provider. Men listen to this, take it to heart, and assume if they meet that criteria he’ll be attractive to women.

Beta game is trying to identify with the woman (e.g. getting in touch with your “feminine side”.)

Women respond to emotional stimuli. Jerks create emotion in women. Nice guys create no emotional impression. This is why she’ll go for the jerk over the nice guy, even if she hates the jerk.

“Women have boyfriends and girlfriends. If you’re not fucking her, you are her girlfriend.”

~ Rollo Tomassi

When you communicate like a girl, a woman’s hindbrain sees you as a girl.

How do you have game without being an asshole?

You don’t have to become a jerk, but you need to harness the same energy as the jerk. You need to leave her with a feeling.

“If you’re not creating emotional impact, she sees you as a teddy bear in her bed. Then she gets grossed out when she discovers you have a hard on.”

~ Rollo

Many women believe there’s no such thing as a “nice guy.” When she discovers that her nice teddy bear has a dick, she thinks it was all a ruse to get in her pants.

Validational Sex vs. Transactional Sex

Most men (beta guys) only engage in transactional sex.

Validational sex is the “enthusiastic consent” sex that women want to have.

In a blue pill relationship, the guy starts the relationship, and then wants sex.

In a healthy (alpha) relationship, sex is the starting point and the relationship follows.

Alpha males have options. Women pick up on these cues and decides if she’s going to lock him down she better have sex with him as soon as possible, otherwise her competition is going to get him.

Many men become addicted to pornography because they’ve never had the kind of sex they see in pornography. They never get the woman’s sexual best because they started with relationship and went to sex.

Trad-cons want men to “man up” (e.g. prepare to be a father and useful man to society.) This used to be the social contract: do this and you get sex from a woman. Unfettered hypergamy has largely destroyed that contract, but men still act as if it were in place.

Ironically, “natural alphas” can end up becoming some of the most manipulated men. They never had incentive to learn red pill because they were naturally rewarded with sex. Then they don’t what to do later in the relationship.

“Honey Do” lists are a prime example of transactional sex. “Do A, B, C, D and you get your doggy treat.”

“Marital Rape”

The “Marital rape” concept comes from when a couple has been married for a long time and she’s just not interested in sex, but she’s feels obliged to do it. Soon enough it will be considered “rape” if there is not “enthusiastic consent” with even one’s own wife.

Rollo thinks rape accusations will be the new money makers for attorneys. Divorces aren’t as lucrative because millennials aren’t getting married.

Rollo thinks marriage was a good deal for men up until the sexual revolution. Now the old social contract has devolved. But guys are still taught the old social contract (i.e. if they prepare themselves for the future, they’ll be better mates.) When the guy has prepared himself and reaches the age of 30, he finds that the girls who want to marry him have already gone through her “party years” and he can only get mitigated sex.

In the future, it will be very easy for an attorney to establish that a guy has been sexually or emotionally abusive to a woman if she ever felt obliged to have sex with him (“duty sex”).

“MeToo” has no statutes of limitations. So if a woman decides after 22 years of marriage that she didn’t want to have sex with him the second night of their honeymoon, suddenly the man’s a rapist.

How does being the “nice guy” backfire?

Women don’t trust men because they think they are just “playing nice” to get sex.

There’s a spectrum where on one side you have the mousey doormat nice guy and on the other end you have the borderline abusive jerk. Most men are closer to the nice guy then the jerk. You don’t want to be on the extreme ends of the spectrum, but most guys need to move more towards the “jerk” end of the spectrum. Rollo says the easiest way to do this is make yourself your own mental point of origin. You don’t have to be an asshole. Just think of yourself first.

“Enlightened Self-Interest” – you can’t help others until you can help yourself.

When women see a guy being nice, they think he’s being nice just for the sake of being nice. Her hindbrain sees these guys as a girlfriend (the “straight gay friend”). But guys still believe in the transactional sex exchange.


Several years ago, an author published an article telling men if they take the workload off of women by helping around the house more, she’ll want to have more sex. 5 years later, the same author published an article with studies showing the opposite was true: the more a man left the house and did stereotypical masculine work, the more attractive he was.

Rollo sees the “choreplay” trend come back every few years.

Women don’t want men to think that they are owed sex, yet they keep dangling the carrot in front of them. This reinforces the false belief men have that they will get sex in exchange for services rendered.

Can’t men tell when a woman is not in love with him?

Rollo says most men cannot tell (or he doesn’t want to know) when a woman doesn’t love him.

Men and women have different concepts of love. Women think of love in terms of opportunism. Men think of love in terms of idealism.

Strippers make good money because they mimic the behavior of a woman who’s genuinely into a man. Men will often pay more for a stripper than a prostitute because they’re paying for the interest. Men are seeking more than just an orgasm.

The “Just Be Yourself” Myth

A lot of your friends will tell you, “Just be yourself and the right girl will come along.” This is what people say when they don’t know what else to say. You need to be your BEST self.

There’s no shame in wanting to be a better person and improve yourself. If your initial motivation to improve yourself is to get laid, fine. Just be sure you take it beyond that.

Many women today are wary of nice guys or they think nice guys are actually the jerks because they’re not upfront about their motivations.

How can you keep the excitement in a relationship?

Rollo says a lot guys will have sex with their wife while they’re dating for maybe three or four years. Then they decide they want to get married and “lose the frame” and can’t get back to the initial passion. This typically happens because the guy gets comfortable and backslides back into his blue pill ways.

Just because you’re married doesn’t mean you get to be comfortable. You still have maintain the frame and be that same guy you were when you were dating.

Women will say “good communication” is the secret to a healthy marriage. It’s not. Polarity is the secret to a good marriage. You stay true to who you are and she can respect you just like she did when she was dating you.

Men are taught they need to be vulnerable with women. But women will actually see you as weak when you do that and it changes the dynamics of the relationship.

Women are raised to believe they should never do anything for the express pleasure of a man. It always comes down to what are the men doing to keep things fresh? Men are the real romantics. Women don’t do romantic things for their husbands.

Finding a Good Woman

Admiration is the most important quality to look for in a woman.

“You want a woman who will change her religion for you and help break you out of jail and bury the bodies. You want a woman who’s that dedicated to you. Most women don’t even want to let their man drive their car.”

~ Rollo Tomassi

Rollo has a “shit test” men can do to women when dating: When you decide to take her car, does she give you the keys? Rollo says his wife was the first woman to that to him. She had an alpha father and expected men to lead her. For the last 23 years, Rollo’s been driving his wife’s car when they go together.

A woman cannot look up to you if she’s your equal. You need to be above her. You need to have the frame and the life that she wants to be a part of.

A woman should only be a compliment to a man’s life, never the focus. She wants to be a compliment to you, even if she doesn’t know it yet. Even die-hard feminists want to be a compliment to a worthy man’s life.

It all starts by insisting nothing less than this arrangement and making yourself your own mental point of origin.

That concludes my show notes. I hope you found them useful.

If you’d like to discover how your church is sabotaging your sexual success as a man, check out my article.


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